Episode 16: Heroines, Witchers, Dragons and Heists – Beyond the Monomyth
In this episode, we finally dive into the massive fantasy genre. We explore the ideas in Gail Carriger’s book The Heroine’s Journey as an alternative story structure to the more well known hero’s journey, and how that works in different fiction formats.
We also look at Farah Mendelson’s four different types of fantasy – portal quests, immersion, intrusion and liminal – and we also speculate on what the future of fantasy will be in the current dark times. Plus Nick declares that The Epic Is Dead. What do you think?
You can listen to this episode on our website, or you can subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
“Isis gets Osiris back but he has to go into the Underworld every night because he is missing his phallus. She only managed to find 12 of his 13 body parts and sew him back together and invents embalming along the way.”
Guest Host: Dave Gove:
“I’ve mentioned Tolkien’s ‘On Fairy Stories’, which for me is one of the great moments in thinking about the fantasy genre. For me, that monologue at the end of Hogfather where Death explains why Santa Claus is important, that is Pratchett’s ‘On Fairy Stories’.”
Timestamps:
0:00 – Introduction
2.03 – What is a pre-apocalypse?
15:12 – Natural Disasters
40:08 – Aliens & Robots
52:05 – Man made disasters
1:18:57 – Is there a moral message in pre-apocalypse stories?
1:31:57 – Wrap up & Outro
“The passion play of Putin in Ukraine would fit perfectly in The Witcher. You couldn’t put Putin in Lord of the Rings because in the end of Lord of the Rings, Putin has to get killed on a mountain top with lava. That’s the only possible option. Is that going to happen? Probably not. Is whatever replaces Putin going to be better? Probably not? So we actually can’t have those stories any more. We can’t have nice things.”
Books we discuss:
Anon. Beowulf
Asimov, Isaac. Foundation
Berg, Alex P. Dagger and Steele series
Bronte, Charlotte. Jane Eyre
Butcher, Jim. The Dresden Files
Blyton, Enid. The Magic Faraway Tree
Brooks, Terry. Shanara
Lord Byron. Don Juan
Campbell, Joseph. Mask of a thousand faces
Carriger, Gail. The Heroine’s Journey
Carrol, Lewis. Alice in Wonderland
Cavendish, Margaret. The Description of a New World, Called The Blazing-World
Conrad, Joseph. Heart of Darkness
Cook, Glen. The Black Company
De Lint, Charles. Memory and Dream
De Lint, Charles. Some Place to be Flying
Eddings, David. The Belgariad.
Feist, Raymond E. Magician
Gaiman, Neil. ‘The problem of Susan’ (short story)
Herbert, Frank. Dune
Howard, Robert E. Conan of Cimmeria
Jackson, Steve and Ian Livingstone. Fighting Fantasy books
Jennings, Paul. Round the Twist
Jordan, Robert. The Wheel of Time series
Keyes, Gregory. Newton’s Cannon
Lewis, C.S. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe
Lewis, C.S. The Magician’s Nephew
Lewis, Matthew. The Monk
Lieber, Fritz. Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser
Lynch, Scott. The lies of Loche Lamora
Mandeville, Sir John. The Travels of Sir John Mandeville
Martin, George R.R.. A Song of Ice and Fire series
McCaffrey, Anne. Dragonriders of Pern
Mendlesohn, Farah. Rhetorics of Fantasy
Meyers, Stephanie. Twilight series
Moore, Alan. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
More, Thomas. Utopia
Morecock, Michael. Elric series
Paolini, Christopher. Eregon
Pratchett, Terry. Discworld series
Potter, Beatrix. Peter Rabbit
Radcliffe, Ann. The Mysteries of Uldolfo
Rhys, Jean. Wide Sargasso Sea
Roth, Veronica. Divergence series
Rowling, J.K. Harry Potter series
Sapkowski, Andrzej. The Witcher series
Shakespeare, William. The Tempest,
Shakespeare, William. A Midsummer Night’s dream
Tolkien, JRR. The Hobbit
Tolkien, JRR. Lord of the Rings
Tolkien, JRR. On Fairy Stories
Walpole, Horace. Castle of Otranto
Webhe, Kurtis. Rat Queens
Wynne Jones, Diana. Howl’s Moving Castle
Movies & TV shows we discuss:
Arcane
Ator the Invincible
The Black cauldron
Bright
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Carnival Row
Chariots of the Gods
Click
Conan the Barbarian
Divergence
Dragonslayer
Dungeons and Dragons movie (2000)
Firefly
A Game of Thrones
Great Mysteries of the World
The Green Knight
Hawke the Slayer
Howl’s Moving Castle
Isaki
Jupiter Ascending
Mad Max
Monkey
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Ocean’s Eleven
Serenity
Severance
Shanara
Star Trek
Starwars
Supergirl
Sword Art Online
Westworld
The Wheel of Time
The Witcher
Wonder Woman
Games we discuss:
Balders Gate 2
Balder’s Gate 3
Battlestar Galactica
Battletech
Call of Cthulhu
D&D 5th Edition
Middle Earth Role Playing
Piranha Games
Planescape: Torment
Rolemaster: Shadow World
Shadowrun
Spelljammer
The Witcher 3
Other links:
Munro, T.O. The four categories of fantasy: applying some of the ideas from Rhetorics of Fantasy by Farah Mendlesohn in Fantasy Hive.
Narrative First: Not everything is a Hero’s Journey
Seager, Steve. Beyond the Hero’s Journey: Four innovative models for digital story design
Wicked Wallflowers Club: Episode 137 – Gail Carriger: The Heroine’s Journey
Wikipedia: Fantasy